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Should the government impose gun restrictions?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Jason76, Oct 3, 2015.

  1. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Now with another school shooting in Oregon, when will somebody again force the innocent to pay for his/her frustration? o_O From a philosophical POV, apart from any emotional thinking, is such a mindset justified? Seems it is for Muslim extremists, etc..
     
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  2. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Sadly that is part of the mentality of the human animal.

    Pass the blame on to someone else. That's why most religions have some kind of devil.

    It was one mentally challenged man who did the crime. Stick with the facts.
     
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  3. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    How mentally challenged was he? He was quite knowledgeable about politics, religion etc.. and he did have a chip on his shoulder against the world. The guy had some problems, but he wasn't some sweet guy with Down's Syndrome. Note also, other school shooters were not learning disabled.
     
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  4. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Yeah, I figured someone would question me regarding the "mentally challenged" but decided to include it anyhow because that's really the way "I" feel.

    I mean, if a person spends a lot of time researching mass murderers as opposed to learning how to do something constructive or creative "I" have to consider the person mentally challenged.

    I'm not suggesting that the flaw was intentional, it may have been an imbalance in his brain.

    Did society fail him? Did society fail to protect those he killed? There are records of his being refused for military service. Why was he refused? There are records of the weapons he bought.
     
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  5. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I had an older friend kind of like that. He was poor on disability, and spent his time either surfing porn, drinking, or looking up useless information (Info that isn't contributing to him making more money).

    Note: He was always big into psychology and looking at his own behavior. However, if he made more money, well, that would have made him happier and more adjusted, hence no need for self reflection. :rolleyes: Also, hypocritically, he was a Christian and knew much about the Bible. However, it wasn't helping him out, cause he was unwilling to work.

    Yes, I agree idle time is the devil's time. Some people need to work or study something useful. It keeps them out of trouble and improves thier financial and spiritual existance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
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  6. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Nice response and example. If we are not trying to better our life who are we really to place the blame on?
     
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  7. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    No we shouldn't worship money, but if our life sucks, and deep down we know it's cause of being poor, then why not use spare time to dig ourselves out of the hole? Believe me people on disability have loads of time, almost as much as somebody in prison.
     
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  8. Shanlung Plant

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    Is information all about contributing to making money?
    And if otherwise, useless to that person or any thing at all?

    I do spend a lot of time looking up and enjoying those useless information and not contributing to my making more money.
    I spend a lot of time also in contributing information , especially on looking after parrots and birdies, requesting only that those who find what I contributed to be good to donate to a wildlife conservation of their choice.

    I enjoyed the reading of old ancient Chinese poetry (in Chinese) from the Internet and of reading classical Chinese martial arts book (400 to 600 years old and in Chinese) , also from the internet. About 3 weeks ago, I could not read Chinese as I came from a pure English speaking background courtesy of the legacy of British Empire. I could speak Chinese , purely as I was yanked into Taiwan 25++ years ago on work and learned Chinese from the road side and from my many chinese girls who decide to teach me how to speak chinese. Got too distracted to learn to read chinese then. I picked up my ability to read Chinese purely from the Internet, yanking myself up with my bootstraps and grit, starting 3 weeks ago.

    Libai is one of the Chinese poet I loved reading from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bai
    extract from above

    Li Bai (701 – 762), also known as Li Po, was a Chinese poet acclaimed from his own day to the present as a genius and romantic figure who took traditional poetic forms to new heights. He and his friend Du Fu (712–770) were the two most prominent figures in the flourishing of Chinese poetry in the Tang Dynasty that is often called the "Golden Age of China". "Three Wonders of the Great Tang Empire" referred to Li Bai’s poetry, Pei Min’s swordplay, and Zhang Xu’s calligraphy.[1]

    Around a thousand poems attributed to him are extant. His poems have been collected into four Tang dynasty poetry anthologies,[2] and thirty-four of his poems are included in the anthology Three Hundred Tang Poems, which was first published in the 18th century. In the same century, translations of his poems began to appear in Europe. The poems were models for celebrating the pleasures of friendship, the depth of nature, solitude, and the joys of drinking wine. Among the most famous are "Waking from Drunkenness on a Spring Day", "The Hard Road to Shu", and "Quiet Night Thought", which still appear in school texts in China. In the West, translations of Li's poems continue to be made into many languages. His life has even taken on a legendary aspect, including tales of drunkenness, chivalry, and the well-known fable that Li drowned when he reached from his boat to grasp the moon’s reflection in the river.

    Much of Li's life is reflected in his poetry: places which he visited, friends whom he saw off on journeys to distant locations perhaps never to meet again, his own dream-like imaginations embroidered with shamanic overtones, current events of which he had news of, descriptions sliced from nature in a timeless moment of poetry, and so on. However, of particular general importance are the changes in the times through which he lived: his early poetry took place in the context of a "golden age" of internal peace and prosperity in the Chinese empire of the Tang dynasty, under the reign of an emperor who actively promoted and participated in the arts; but this all changed suddenly and shockingly, as, beginning with the rebellion of the general An Lushan, all of northern China was devastated by war and famine, in one of the greatest catastrophic losses of population in all history. Li's poetry as well takes on new tones and qualities. Unlike his younger friend Du Fu, Li was not to live to see the quelling of these disorders. However, much of Li's poetry has survived, with enduring popularity in China and a developing influence in the Western world.
    .
    .
    .
    One of Li Bai's most famous poems is Waking From Drunkenness on a Spring Day (春日醉起言志). Arthur Waley[39] translated it as follows:

    Waking From Drunkenness on a Spring Day (春日醉起言志)
    處世若大夢, Life in the world is but a big dream;
    胡爲勞其生. I will not spoil it by any labour or care.
    所以終日醉, so saying, I was drunk all the day,
    頹然臥前楹. lying helpless at the porch in front of my door.
    覺來盼庭前, when I awoke, I blinked at the garden-lawn;
    一鳥花間鳴. a lonely bird was singing amid the flowers.
    借問此何時, I asked myself, had the day been wet or fine?
    春風語流鶯. the Spring wind was telling the mango-bird.
    感之欲嘆息, moved by its song I soon began to sigh,
    對酒還自傾. and, as wine was there, I filled my own cup.
    浩歌待明月, wildly singing I waited for the moon to rise;
    曲盡已忘情. when my song was over, all my senses had gone.


    I thank those who bothered to spend the time to put those kind of information up, with no thoughts of financial gain.

    I also enjoy the smelling of roses, with side glances to lilies, orchids, camelias and other kinds of flowers en passant. I probably read about an English novel every week or other week or so as well.
    And yup, about 2-3 hours per day playing chess which did not help me financially or spiritually either.

    But shucks! all those did not improve my financial wealth, and neither did those enhance my spiritual existance.
    But those enhance my enjoyment of what is left of my life and nothing else.

    So people like Madoff and Lehman brothers and their likes are your heros that you look up to?

    But I am ready to learn from you as to where I have gone wrong with my life and all ears as to your wisdom that I hope you share with me and all.


    Warmest regards

    Shanlung
    山龍
    (Mountain Dragon)
    http://shanlung.com/
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
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  9. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I would agree with you, except in a situation where someone had a very low income.
     
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  10. Quality Checked Bird Moderator

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    Here is a good article on gun violence. It has lots of information, some of which is surprising. For instance, gun ownership is trending down, not up. Something like 2/3 of households do not have guns. (Pew found that gun ownership is concentrated among older adults, rural residents, and whites, especially white Southerners. Whites in the South are more likely to own guns than whites in other regions.)

    Despite a declining level of gun ownership, incidents of gun violence ("active shooter incidents") are increasing. So, it isn't an epidemic of gun purchases that are driving the problem.

    Steven Pinker provided an insightful analysis of violence (gun or otherwise), a view supported in the referenced article. The south is the most violent area of the United States, and includes people whose recent origins are the south. Pinker identifies three elements: suspicion of government institutions (police and courts among other things), a "do it yourself" approach to settling disputes, and a culture where personal honor is emphasized. All this adds up to occasions where shooting someone occurs much more often in the south than in other parts of the country, particularly the upper midwest and New England. In these two regions there is a long-standing acceptance of government, a strong preference for settling disputes civilly, and where "personal honor" is more an interior than exterior value.

    The "chip on the shoulder" personality seems like a workable hypothesis for a lot of these violent incidents:

    Shooters seem to have:

    a. Many, intense, and cultivated grievances against others
    b. Little personal ability to resolve problems peaceably
    c. Little trust in the institutions of society
    d. Interest in, access to, and possession of guns (more than needed for self-defense)

    The fact that some parts of the country (and most parts of the world) have less violence than other parts suggests that our level of violence is not inevitable. The kind of values we teach and encourage others to practice has something to do with it.

    The way children are brought up, the values that are promoted in religion, education and civic groups, the kind of community norms that are maintained--all this plays a role. That's what needs to change. It would help to have better schools, health care facilities, adequate mental health services, and so forth. Even though I am in favor of much tighter gun control, that alone is only a small piece of the solution.
     
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  11. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    What's funny is that extremists always deny they have those qualities. Also, extremists hypocritically praise terrorist acts. White supremacists praised 9/11 and they're also praising random shootings by angry white males, despite any innocents who might get killed (college kids going to class etc.).
     
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  12. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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  13. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    There is a difference between "mentally challenged" and "mentally ill". You don't have to be retarded or disabled to have a mental illness. Ted Kaczynski was extremely intelligent. He was definitely not mentally challenged but he certainly was mentally ill. Sometimes people just get these mental, psychopathic infections that they can't shake off. It doesn't matter how intelligent they are. The guy who shot those students may have been an intelligent dude but he also had a mental illness. In other words he was insane.
     
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  14. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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  15. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Have you noticed how many people the last few days have been killed or wounded via stabbings? Again I will say: Guns don't kill people; people kill people.
     
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  16. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    http://www.salon.com/2015/10/08/tox...the_fragility_of_americas_alpha_male_partner/

    No wonder these so called "incels", guys who no women want, go on rampages. They want the Snoop Dogg image :rolleyes:, but they can't obtain it.

    The sad thing though, joking aside, is it fair that these people, who had nothing to do with his problem, have to die because of it?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/victims-of-oregon-shooting/

    What a selfish narcisstic view of oneself, common on with rappers etc.., that human lives (especially ones not responsible in any form) can be sacrificed to satisfy one's insecurity. It reminds me of that scene on Goodfellas where Joe Pesci shoots a waiter dead, after he tells him to "go screw himself". XD
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
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  17. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I doubt if guns have anything to with it. It's more the case of "wannabe" alpha males.
     
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  18. Quality Checked Bird Moderator

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    The difference between guns and knives is efficacy: guns are far more "effective" at greater distances and in a shorter period of time. They haven't developed a rapid-stab knife yet which enables an assassin to kill 50 people in 3 or 4 minutes. Armies wouldn't have switched from Medieval weapons (spears, bows and arrows, swords, etc.) to guns if they hadn't worked better.

    Speaking of shooting people, whoever started that stupid "guns don't kill, people do" should be taken out and shot.

    Bang bang he shot me down.

     
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  19. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Now that is an irony if ever there was one.
     
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  20. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    You can't keep guns out of the hands of madmen or criminals who really want one. Also, as Jimbob pointed out, somebody could go on a knife rampage. Note, before guns, armies killed with knives, swords, etc.. and it was just as bloody.
     
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