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Should idiots have children?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Jason76, Aug 13, 2016.

  1. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    OK, spanking and other traditional "Andy Griffith Show" punishments don't hurt kids, but maybe if the parents are idiots.

     
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  2. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    No, idiots should not have children.

    Unfortunately, they tend to have more children than the smart people.

    Forget space travel and teleportation; Idiocracy is where we're headed! :eek:
     
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  3. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I think some lower IQ people should be allowed to have kids. It's a case by case issue. However, there should be a license for having kids because otherwise it leads to child abuse. Note, not all low IQ people are out of their mind. However, some of the lower IQ, and maybe even some higher IQ people are warped emotionally and scary.

    I don't buy into the genetic theory of intellegence, but I do believe emotionally warped people bring kids into a horrible environment.
     
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  4. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    Care to elaborate?
     
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  5. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I think the idea is exxagerated. The environment also plays a heavy role. Some families Iv'e seen have had total failures and doctors being brother and sister. What caused them to go down seperate paths? The people they socialize with.
     
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  6. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    I believe that environment can have a severe impact on intelligence in the negative direction but not so much in the positive direction. I believe people are born with a narrow intelligence range that will manifest if the child has a healthy upbringing. An average kid isn't going to become Einstein because of his/her environment. Lots of kids have decent upbringings but they still seem to resemble their parents in terms of intelligence.

    On the other hand, a child with a nature IQ range of 125 - 130 could definitely be dumbed down to 70 or so if they are neglected as a young child. Your genetics determine your height unless that growth is stunted by malnourishment.

    If we are all born with roughly the same intelligence level then why are geniuses so rare? It's not like their upbringings were anything special. We haven't identified any sort of environmental factors that produce geniuses but we have noticed that geniuses are almost always produced when two very intelligent people breed.
     
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  7. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    What is a genius? I'm only average at Calculus, but I'm a whiz at music. It depends on the subject.
     
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  8. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Time to cull the population. Anyone with less than a 120 IQ gets to go to Mars.
     
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  9. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    If you can listen to an orchestra and then go home and write down the music played by each piece then you'd be a genius.

    If you become a chess grandmaster at age 10 then you're a genius.

    If you are taking college algebra at age 9 then you're a genius.

    Genius is like porn; it's hard to define but you know it when you see it.
     
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  10. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I know at least two people in my family who could have done without the crowd they chose to hang around. Had they chose the non-rebellious route, the high or decent IQ in our family would have given them a good life.
     
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  11. Quality Checked Bird Moderator

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    IQ is kind of a crude concept.

    Genetics plays a very significant role in who and what we are. So does environment. But what genes, precisely, makes us extra smart or stupid, we don't know. There are idiot savants who are capable of amazing feats of calculation who otherwise don't know shit from shinola.

    Over hundreds of millions of years, animals who inherited traits that helped them survive passed on their genes to offspring. What is most important to nature is surviving, mating, rearing young, and then clearing out so the next generation can have a chance. Where does IQ fit into this? It isn't entirely clear. Survival, mating, rearing young, and then dying doesn't require genius level intelligence--or maybe even being moderately clever.

    Human intelligence is so multivariate it's hard to measure. Is a great artist a genius? Ken said if you could write down all the notes from a concert you heard, you'd be a genius. What about the composer? Not a genius? Some children show a tremendous aptitude for business. Are they geniuses? (Hey, it's not like playing a violin, somebody will say.) Or some children are extremely skilled at social intelligence. are they geniuses, even if they are dyslexic? We tend to think geniuses are good at physics, chess, and math. What about farming. Might not a genius be extra good at farming?

    We privilege certain kinds of thinking. This isn't all bad of course. But the farmer is the man who feeds us all -- more important than a chess master by far.

    The standard IQ tests, like the Stanford Binet, are quite old. They were designed with certain constructs in mind that perhaps we don't accept anymore. Performance is far more important than IQ. Or as it is sometimes put, "want to is more important than IQ."
     
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  12. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I think the idea of IQ is exploited to promote social darwinism, which at one time promoted slavery and segregation, which at least kept certain groups alive rather than kill them, but now simply is just pure hate, mainly cause the objects of social darwinist scorn are deemed useless.
     
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  13. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    So how would you correct what you view as "wrong"?
     
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  14. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I don't think the environment has been improved enough to help certain groups. Also, I don't value human life totally on IQ, though saying so might sound cheesy and sentimental. :rolleyes:
     
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  15. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Actually, we have destroyed the environment too much. But whatever, the planet can support only so many humans.

    Yeah, we know about your values regarding human life.
     
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  16. Quality Checked Bird Moderator

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    Not only has the environment not been improved enough, I'm not sure we know how to improve it enough. Take the average black kid from the urban slum. His mother doesn't talk the child a lot, and too much of what the child hears is command language or negative language. They don't hear enough positive language, and not enough language in general.

    Child development and family studies have shown that many black children have heard maybe 30 million fewer words by the time they reach first grade than white children (healthy working class families and up). Hearing words on television doesn't help -- it's face to face language that matters. (It doesn't have to be spoken to them directly, children just need to be there.) The deficiency this lack of language exposure causes appears to be ir-remedial. Once the kid is 6, 7, or 8 years old, it's practically too late. Stunted language means stunted school performance.

    How do you fix the parents so they talk more, and talk more positively, to their children? Theoretically, it can be done. I'm not sure the means are available.

    People who don't have salable skills and talents (skilled, trained, and/or educated workers) don't have a bright future in the industrialized nations of the G8. There just isn't much need for them at a wage that people will accept. Making plastic stuff in China works because workers there are willing (because of necessity) to work for wages which are relatively very low. American workers could make the plastic stuff too, but they probably wouldn't live in the conditions which Chinese workers have to put up with (like factory dormitories). Chinese workers don't like their low wages and working conditions either -- but in the still developing economy, it's what many of them can get.

    There just isn't a future for the uneducated, unskilled, untrained, people in the US, given the way the world economy is working, and is likely to work in the future. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
     
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  17. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    I saw some of this stuff when I was in Saipan. You had a caste system with natives running the government, Japanese and a few American tourists and residents, Bangladeshi taxi drivers, some Filipino people and at the bottom Chinese sweat shop workers.

    Being a US citizen was a big deal so that was a big prize there so a lot of "money face" love stuff was going on.
     
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  18. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    OK, again the fault with corpral punishment is it's being administered by idiots and/or psychos. Otherwise, I don't think it's cruel, and often times it corrects very foolish and cruel individuals. However, the biggest argument in favor of corporal punishment is that in some scenarios, like raising certain children, it could be the only way to get thru to them.
     
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  19. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    I still support corporal punishment. But like you said, it should not be administered by idiots. However, in most cases this cannot be controlled.
     
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  20. Quality Checked Bird Moderator

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    Well really, we don't want idiots to be doing anything, anywhere, at any time, other than overcoming their idiocy.
     
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