Welcome to Discuss Truth forums!

Would you like to join in discussion? Click here to sign up and become a part of our community today!

Sign Up

Should abortion be allowed?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by KenBrace, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not expecting agreement in this discussion. Our beliefs regarding abortion go much deeper than does the actual subject.

    I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. This is because I am an Anarchist and believe that the government nor any one else has the right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with and to her body.

    Counseling? Yes. Support groups pro and con? Yes. Alternatives? Yes. But she still has the ultimate choice.
     
  2. kamai Molecule

    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Female
    I don't understand how some people think that a fetus is not a life. The instance the baby is conceived it is a life, it's rediculous to think othetwise since we were all fetus at one point. If you do not want the responsibility of being a parent use protection. If you happen to get pregnant for one reason or another give that little life you have inside a chance to decide how they want to live. If you can't take the pressure give it for adoption don't kill them. Some people think that being torn apart doesn't hurt them just because they are still tiny and in the womb but of course it does hurt them. People like to ignore the fact that an innocent fetus does feel just to go through with their selfish needs.
     
    Jason76 likes this.
  3. Binu Molecule

    Posts:
    10
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Female
    I don't support abortion openly, however, I believe women should be always given a choice of abortion.
    Abortion should be allowed in following conditions
    The prenant woman is not married yet.
    The pregnancy is result of rape or incest
    Mother's health is at the crux
    There is a possibility of disease on the child (for instance AIDS)
    There is a complication in pregnancy, for example the fetus in not in the uterus.
     
  4. Jason76 Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    556
    Gender:
    Male

    Would someone kill an adult person who has AIDS to put them out of their misery? Of course, the case of abortion for rape and incest has even less support going for it. Obviously, the kid has a good chance at being born healthy.
     
  5. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    Fair arguments all. It is east to see why this subject always gets heated when it is raised as a general public issue.

    I must stand firm to my concept of "Free choice". Again I remind everyone that I am not "Pro-abortion" as such but I am "Pro-choice".

    And yes, I still hold that the fetus is a part of the woman's body until it has left the womb. Not much different than a bad tooth that should either be repaired or removed.
     
  6. Jason76 Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    556
    Gender:
    Male
    A baby in the womb is human and can feel pain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
    KenBrace likes this.
  7. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    I can feel pain too and one day I will die. No real loss.
     
  8. Jason76 Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    556
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, but odds are you won't be murdered.
     
  9. KenBrace Bird Administrator

    Posts:
    2,043
    Likes Received:
    571
    Well, of course, the only difference is that the fetus has a human brain that is conscious while the bad tooth does not.

    There are two human beings, not one.
     
  10. Quality Checked Bird Moderator

    Posts:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    550
    Gender:
    Male
    A fetus can feel pain AFTER enough neural development has taken place to connect peripheral nerves to the brain. This occurs between the 5 and 6th month of pregnancy, or thereabouts.

    Why can't pain be felt before then? Because "pain" is a mental interpretation of an otherwise meaningless nerve signal. Sometime around 20 weeks the capacity to interpret nerve signals develops. Prior to that, it doesn't exist.

    There are a lot of other things the developing brain can't do at 5 months, too -- pain isn't the only still undeveloped facility.
     
    KenBrace likes this.
  11. Quality Checked Bird Moderator

    Posts:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    550
    Gender:
    Male
    I am strongly pro-choice, at least up until the 7th month of a pregnancy. The fetus is, and is not, part of a woman's body. Initially, it is much more part of a woman's body than it will be at say 5 months. It is always 100% dependent on the woman's body, until it is born. But it is also increasingly not part of the woman's body -- as it approaches the capacity to breath and eat on its own were it to be born.

    A fetus isn't analogous to your aching tooth, diseased liver, broken bone, or any such thing. All your parts are you, parts of an independent organism, your tooth as much as your liver. They are all made from your DNA. The fetus isn't the same as the mother--it isn't an organ or a clone.

    One can be prochoice, that is, willing to terminate a pregnancy even up to the 7th or 8th month, and still recognize the fetus as a life, and late in the pregnancy, a practically independent life. If the fetus were just a blob, abortion wouldn't be a difficult, heavily freighted issue. An early abortion doesn't involve so much difficulty for many, but a late abortion involves a lot of difficult balancing for just about anybody, prochoice or not. The prochoice position can't depend on arguing that the fetus is nothing. The Anti-choice, right to life position, stands on an equally untenable position--the the fertilized egg is a person. It isn't, and it won't be for quite a while.

    Prochoice is just that: that the pregnant woman may choose to terminate a pregnancy. Some people place a limit on the choice -- say, no choice after 7 months, baring extraordinary problems, but in the event of those extraordinary problems, even 8 3/4 months might allow for a near-term abortion (perhaps the discovery of severe structural problems, perhaps brain malformation).
     
  12. Jason76 Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    556
    Gender:
    Male
    Some pictures of extremely deformed babies, ones that are freakish looking, but not trying to say in a cruel heartless way, bring up some serious issues for the pro-life group. However, ironically, most of the babies being aborted have nothing wrong with them at all, or just minor deformities (I would count Downs Syndrome as being a minor one) and are being aborted by selfish parents.

    Possibly the extremely deformed wouldn't live anyway, but is it right to pull the plug?
     
  13. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    I would still be just as dead, wouldn't I?
     
  14. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    That's your understanding. But not necessarily mine.
     
  15. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    My opinion is actually less than that. If a decision hasn't been made after three months of pregnancy then an abortion should no longer be considered.
     
    KenBrace likes this.
  16. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    Just stop making unwanted babies in the first place. Then abortion will never be an issue.
     
    KenBrace likes this.
  17. Jason76 Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    556
    Gender:
    Male
    Also, the abortion of female babies in some parts of the world is creating forever angry bachelor men drawn to extremism:

    http://discusstruth.com/threads/society-is-threatened-by-polygamy-and-abortion.711/

    http://www.economist.com/news/speci...nd-mayhem?fsrc=scn/fb/te/pe/ed/ofmenandmayhem



    (quote by Jimbob)

    I won't argue with that statement.
     
    KenBrace likes this.
  18. KenBrace Bird Administrator

    Posts:
    2,043
    Likes Received:
    571
    Well it wasn't really an opinion, but a statement of fact. There are two unique sets of DNA, two brains, two pairs of legs, etc. Like @Quality Checked pointed out, this isn't always the case. After only 5 weeks, it's still almost entirely the woman's body since it isn't much different than an unfertilized egg.. After 7 months, it is an entirely different story.

    Honestly, abortion is a lot like the following analogy. Imagine we started genetically modifying apes to increase their intelligence. After a few decades of doing this, their intelligence began to creep eirily close to ours (maybe an average IQ of 50 or so). Then another decade passes and this new species has an average IQ of 80. They are now equally as intelligent and sentient as a dumb human being. Would it be right to murder one of them for food? Well of course not, since it is really no different than killing your neighbor for dinner. What about a decade or two ago? Is it ok to kill monkeys for food? Perhaps only under a survival situation? What about dumber animals like cows? Where to we draw the divine line of "right to life"? There is no distinct diving line. There are only ranges and averages.

    So we know that a fetus becomes its own person 5 - 6 months into the pregnancy, but that's about as close as we can get. Just that range. You also have to consider the fact that babies develop at different rates. So little Jeff might be able to function independently at 20 months, while little Maribeth takes 24 weeks to reach that stage.

    Perhaps there should be some sort of medical test required before abortions to determine whether or not the fetus is capable of life outside the womb? If yes, then it should be illegal to kill it. If no, then perhaps it should be the woman's choice.

    If only people were that smart.

    Well said.
     
  19. jimbob Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    711
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, after fourteen pages I am still pro-choice. Eliminate dualities and choices won't have to be made.
     
  20. Jason76 Cat Moderator

    Posts:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    556
    Gender:
    Male
    As KenBrace said, knowing the dividing line is tough when it comes to feeling pain. However, it could be argued that life begins at conception and feeling pain cannot be dividing line.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016

Share This Page