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Should abortion be allowed?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by KenBrace, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    Here is the deal.

    Right after a baby is born, it would be considered murder to kill it.

    However, two minutes earlier when it was being born, it would have been perfectly legal to kill it (only in some US states). This is known as "late term abortion".

    Anyone with IQ above 70 should be able to see that this is completely ridiculous.

    So we need to work our way down the line.

    Why is it wrong to kill people?

    Because you are depriving someone of their life without their own consent. You are essentially stealing the most precious thing any being possesses, which is life. There is nothing more precious than life and to steal this is one of the worst crimes there are.

    Hopefully we all agree then that killing a new born baby is 100% wrong.

    So what about right before it is born?

    I see absolutely no difference. If you do, please explain.

    Going further back into the pregnancy, does this ever change?

    At what point is the baby suddenly "killable"? Should it be legal to kill the baby on day 50 but illegal on day 51? How much sense does this make?

    Let's step back even further to conception. The entire human is there once the embryo is formed. Before the embryo there is only an egg and millions of sperm cells trying to reach the egg.

    Now let's say a bunch of sperm cells are racing to an egg. Suppose you had the power to kill that egg. Would you consider it immoral to do so? You aren't aborting a human but you are aborting a future human. Is there really a difference? After all the only reason it would be wrong to kill a fetus is because you are robbing it of it's future life. Due to it's undeveloped brain a young fetus really isn't much different than a mouse. It is only because it will one day grow into a human capable of experiencing life, that it is wrong to kill it.

    So back to my above example. Wearing a condom is essentially what I described above. When you do this you are basically depriving a future human of its life. Same with a vasectomy and birth control. Please remember that when you wear a condom you are killing a sperm cell that would have become your child. You'd one day be reading a book to that child, teaching them how to drive, or waving goodbye as they move away and start their own family. But you decided to wear a condom, so that never happened.

    How is this any different than abortion?
     
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  2. marcus Molecule

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    I think that all life is sacred in the eyes of God and therefore it isn't our place to take it.
     
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  3. Morgoth Bacteria

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    But like the OP pointed out, how is using a condom any different than abortion?
     
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  4. marcus Molecule

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    Before conception there isn't a human being. At the moment of conception you have a complete human. Logically this is where human rights should be applied.
     
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  5. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    All of the DNA for the human is there at conception, but does that really make a difference?

    What is the difference between killing a fetus and killing a future fetus?

    Either way you are killing a future human being that would have been capable to enjoying life.
     
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  6. ReticulatedJaguar Bacteria Senior Member

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    Is this just a mental exercise? We aren't being so ridiculous as to suggest using condoms is akin to abortion or murder, right? Not that religious fundies wouldn't have a field day with that one. I mean, not every sperm cell is utilized during impregnation? Further more, it takes the average woman 6 months to conveive so that's a lot of murdered baby sperm? Herps a derps?
     
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  7. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    Every aspect of nature seems to be this way and there's not really anything we can do about it. To survive yourself you must eat other living organisms. The very fact that you are alive now, means that millions of other sperm cells had to die. Evolution is driven by death.

    This is the reality we live in. So I definitely don't think that using a condom is immoral. I just wanted to use it to make a point for people who get too wrapped up in a fundamentalist view of life and abortion.

    I think you have to draw the line somewhere so might as well draw it at conception since that is when an entire human is there. It also seems quite unfair to rob the person who made it to conception, beating near impossible odds.
     
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  8. ReticulatedJaguar Bacteria Senior Member

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    Why? Depends on the circumstances, no? Health of both mother and child? There isn't a hard and fast answer so there need to be options?
     
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  9. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    That's true I guess. I wouldn't so much be against abortion to protect the mother's health.

    If I am correct abortion is used mainly as a form of birth control by married couples. Next is teenage girls who "can't care for the baby". Very few abortions are for the protection of the mother.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._statistic_the_majority_of_women_who_ter.html
     
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  10. ReticulatedJaguar Bacteria Senior Member

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    That's a true statistic, so? If a couple has a contraceptive failure does the woman need to pay the brunt of it and carry to term, regardless? Is this moral? Will an unwanted child be resented? Teenage girls shouldn't be forced to care for a child either while the boys in question get off scot free. Clearly, abortion is a needed medical procedure and the applicability is dependent on the woman in question. Period. Regardless of our opinions on forums, women will continue to abort so this debate isn't really a debate, at all.
     
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  11. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    This means that the mother is willing to deny a fetus of the life it would have had so that she doesn't have to carry a baby for a few months. Sounds selfish to me.

    It is a shame that some guys are immature enough to run around getting girls pregnant without taking responsibility, but I don't see how that effects the situation. It is between the mother and her baby.
     
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  12. Morgoth Bacteria

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    In a sense. But when using a condom you are essentially doing the same thing. Both are forms of birth control.
     
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  13. ReticulatedJaguar Bacteria Senior Member

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    I fail to see how abortion is selfish. I fail to see how men even feel a need to debate it. Even if it is selfish. So, what? Pregnancy is the least of a knocked up gal's worries. It's more the remaining 21 years. Jacking off instead of taking the garbage out is also selfish and we're not stringing men up by the millions for it (although we should).
     
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  14. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    It's sort of an awkward situation where you have kids that you love and that you are glad you have, but that you wouldn't have had given the choice.

    It is perfectly normal to say "I don't want to have kids".

    But you wouldn't say "I wish these kids I have would die, because I don't want kids" (unless you're Casey Anthony).
     
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  15. ReticulatedJaguar Bacteria Senior Member

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    Since it's perfectly normal to say "I don't want kids", it's also pretty normal to "engage in intercourse" which may lead to pregnancy. Now, you weren't doing the whole PIV thing to get pregnant, it was more for the happy feelings. So, yeah - then what? Have 'em anyway and risk a Casey Anthony scenario? I mean, Lious CK does a good skit about women gone wild. You should watch it some time.
     
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  16. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    Unless they're psychopaths on drugs I'm pretty sure that it's not much of a risk .
     
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  17. marcus Molecule

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    I think that humans are created in the image of God and every human is special to his eyes. So it isn't our place to choose whether or not to take a life, once it has been created.
     
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  18. Morgoth Bacteria

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    There is no evidence that humans are created in the image of God.
     
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  19. ReticulatedJaguar Bacteria Senior Member

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    Abortion is completely sanctioned and warranted. It should be undisputed. Period.
     
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  20. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    Sanctioning by the government doesn't mean that something is right. It means that a group of politicians agreed to make it legal. That's all.
     
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