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For those who might like to get into Chinese

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Shanlung, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. Shanlung Plant

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  2. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    You don't practice the art of deception. I have known who you are all along.

    There was one Chinese lady I'm sure I would have enjoyed getting into but I muffed the opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
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  3. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Chinese uses the same sentence order as English, unlike Korean or Japanese.
     
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  4. Shanlung Plant

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    Ha ha ha ha!

    I only see that when the Chinese was written to mirror what was made out in English and as a translation of the original English as courtesy to the original article and writer. Or in a class where students were assumed to know very little Chinese to make it easier for them to follow.

    Hope you gone on into that URL and find out a bit more of Chinese. You might be surprised!
     
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  5. Shanlung Plant

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    I am very fluent in Chinese and can hold about any conversations with Taiwanese locals without even having to think but speaking straight from the heart and mind. From the time I started barely able to articulate a quarter coherent sentence in Chinese.
    That was within 3-4 months from the time I decided on this particular road into Chinese that I wrote about when I was first in Taiwan.
    After they spoke to me, they were surprised that I could barely read Chinese words (short of those stupid soap dramas on TV in addition to the Red Riding Hood and 3 little pigs I forced myself to read in Chinese )
    I felt ashamed to tell my Taiwanese friends I could not speak in Wen Yen Wen either. They laughed and assured me that neither could they and I should not feel bad about that.

    In any language, if you have to think of that language when speaking or reading, you are neither speaking or using that language. Much as if
    you need to think of lifting and moving your left leg followed by lifting and moving your right leg when you decide to walk to a place. If you need to do that, neither are you walking which must be a totally sub conscious effort
    dominated by where you want to walk to instead of the walking itself.

    I was in Taiwan on and off, with the last departure on 2004 after I finished my contract and part of the team that constructed the Taiwan High Speed Rail. I do return to Taiwan on almost yearly basis as anyone here that kept parrot and also in major bird forums can tell you of.

    I always felt I should get into reading of Chinese as well as I am a chinese who by the quirks of history and where my dad fled to, ended up as a native English speaker.
    Anything that you want to do must have a pleasure element in it, if you do want to continue on into it and maintain yourself in it for any period of time.

    tiny extract from what I written


    I chose the Zhuyin fuhao to totally eliminate any form of English when I am reading the chinese characters in time to the spoken Chinese from Google translate.

    I started off with 2 laborous sentences by 2 sentences. Hearing that and reading the zhuyinfuhao and then reading that again by the hanyu pinyin as I had not got back my familiarity with zhuyin fuhao.

    Then it got to paragraph by paragraph.

    Then it got to page by page. Except I could get that repeated as often as I liked.

    I cannot recommend short stories. In long stories, sequences will be repeated and important sequences repeated more often to drum into your head and heart the pattern of Chinese thoughts.


    水滸傳 is a very beautiful book. Too beautiful I decided for getting into the language, but mind you, I got to chapter 20. The descriptions of mountains and forest sceneries were breath taking after I translate those word by word. With enough repeats, I need not even see those translations. The feats of martial arts were better then those you seen in Hongkong movies as those movies took their scenes from that book.

    水滸傳 was also written 600 ears ago. What was bai hwa wen (simple chinese) to that writer would be considered as wen yen wen (serious classical formal chinese ) in our days


    I decided to switch to the Count of Monte Cristo and read that in Chinese. I have read that book in English twice before. I found the Chinese equivalent
    基督山恩仇記 or ji du shan en chou ji
    or Jesus mountain gratitude revenge memoirs
    Google the chinese words to get to your free book. Which I had to change into PDF and finally into doc so I could extract that into the google translate and http://mandarinspot.com/annotate

    The chinese of that
    基督山恩仇記
    was a lot more like the current usage of Chinese. After the initial bit of reading para by para, I got to reading that by 2 to 3 pages at a time. And using the first click of google translate for speed of reading.


    I also told folks they should pick their choice of books on matters that they liked very much.


    I suggest you try to get the chinese translation of Old Man and the Sea , 老男人與海 and use that as your entry point into Chinese. Or of course, do what I did in reading Little Red Riding Hood and 3 Little Pigs.

    Or get Chinese sex stories if you inclined to those. Even be a class above by reading Ching Ping Mei 金瓶梅 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Ping_Mei
    May your joy for lust propel you deeper into the Chinese world.


    Since much of my path also talked of my Taiwanese friends who could not even string 2 coherent sentences in English despite the years and years they slogged in English in schools and bu si ban, and what I did to yank them kicking and screaming into the English world where they could and did string 4 coherent sentences in English when talking with you, Taiwanese who might like to get into the English world might find it good to get into what I wrote

    That will be seen in the first post.
    My road into Chinese is on a path of pleasure, as my road for my Taiwanese into English also on a path of pleasure. After the initial agony.
    Any thing that you want to do cannot and must not be a grind for anyone to stay on that path.

    I also want to make a correction here on what I written in my path into Chinese and touched on a friend.

    I have a very very good American friend with me almost from the beginning in Taiwan. He is still there with Taiwan as his first home and California as his second home. I last saw him in Riyadh a few months ago and we decided we got better things to do than to keep working for money which will go to our wives boyfriends and toyboys. He graduated from Chinese language classes in Taiwan using hanyu pin yin written above Chinese and with beautiful certificates. He married a Taiwanese and they have a nice son. To this date, my friend cannot read a word of Chinese even though he could speak Chinese quite well. He could only read the Hanyu Pinyin, intended by Mao Tze Tung as burial shroud of Chinese. So if you intend to go the Hanyu Pinyin, you will definately be able to prance about in Hangyu Pinyin and impress your fellow expats no end with your mastery of hanyu pinyin and end up like my friend unable to read any chinese words after 25 years.

    I had send that thread to him even if I had not used his name. He wrote back making me very ashamed I besmirched his ability in reading chinese with the poetic license I took.
    He can read 10, a whole ten chinese characters instead of none!

    This was his reply (redacted for focus )


    Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 5:16 PM
    Subject: Re: getting into Chinese

    To my immensely wonderful friend from the antiquity of time,

    I am deeply humbled and gratified by your magnanimous reference to our enduring friendship toward the end of your text.

    It is indeed true that, to this day, I can hardly recognize a character - well, maybe 10 or so, yet somehow maintain intermediate fluency in the spoken language, even though I have not opened a pin yin book in over 20 years.


    I noted with interest your mention in the paragraph about me that Taiwan is my first home and LA my second. This is indeed a powerful conversation I am having with myself. As a native American who is not from LA, I find myself equally and squarely between two worlds, with distinct pluses and minuses for each. We have a lovely house here which we have refurbished and furnished very nicely, loads of indoor and outdoor space (just waiting for your visit!) - yet as the time draws near for us to spend the winter in Taipei, I find myself longing for that other home in Taipei which is still there for us, and the friends and places I have not seen there for so long. This is indeed another transitional phase in my life, almost as powerful as the one I experienced when I moved to Taiwan in 1990.

    I fully intend to enjoy the fruits and pleasures offered on both sides of the Pacific Pond. No need for any ultimate decisions as to 1 or 2. As the famous Yankee baseball player Yogi Berra once said, "when you come to a fork in the road, take it."


    What I wrote here in this thread cannot even be said to be tip of iceberg as the tip will be 10% of the iceberg.
    What I wrote might not even be 2%.
    Taking you perhaps 5 minutes to read.
    Might be double that time if you are a Taiwanese and trying to get into the English world.

    But if you are native English users yearning to get into chinese, how long is that 5 minutes of reading my thoughts ?
    At worse be a waste of time.
    And might give you some laughter.
    And it might well changed your approach into Chinese.
    And not have to beg and beg for cheap tuition into Chinese and control your time as to when you can get into Chinese independent of any other human.


    Shanlung
    山 龍
    Mountain Dragon

    http://shanlung.com/
     
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  6. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    I've thought about trying to learn Chinese before but I find it difficult to put in the time and effort. Chinese is vastly different from English so there's a lot of learning to do. It's not at all like learning Spanish.

    I have so many things that I want to do and so little time to do them all that I simply can't afford to delve my brain into a foreign language at the moment. Especially not something as difficult as Chinese. Maybe a few years down the road I'll find the time. If/when that opportunity arises I will definitely refer back to this thread. :)
     
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  7. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Any language can be more easily learned if you live among speakers. As a substitute' you could try some professional immersion software, though a good program will cost a lot.

    Myself, I view foreign languages as a waste of time unless your plan on visiting the nation (for a long time preferably) with the targeted language, or you plan on making money with it (teaching, interpreting etc..).
     
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  8. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    A lot of Chinese words are in Korean. For instance, nam (south) and han (people). For instance, Gangnam, as in "Gangnam Style" (the popular song) is speaking of something to do with south, maybe the south neighborhood. San is also a common word in Korean, meaning mountain. I'm not sure if it's Chinese.
     
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  9. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Chinese mostly uses word symbols, as opposed to Korean, which uses it's own alphabet, Hangul, which I learned to sound out during my stay there. Hangul was very easy to learn. On the other hand, actually learning to speak and understand Korean is incredibly difficult.
     
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  10. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Oh, I did live with a Chinese Christian family during my stay on the island of Saipan, where I taught school at a Christian academy. I suppose I picked up on the language some there, but later forgot it. I did learn some things about Chinese. For instance, they don't eat the Chinese food American eat. Also, in Korea, Koreans don't eat the Chinese food Americans eat.

    Actually in this small mountain town (Yeongwol South Korea), I ate frequently at this Chinese restaurant, but I always ordered egg with fried rice, and some soup on the side.
     
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  11. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    Were you afraid to order beef for fear that they might serve you dog?
     
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  12. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    :D I never encountered that stuff over there. There were no restaurants like that out in the open. Only one time did it come up. Some chubby face middle school boy resented the fact westerners didn't like the Korean practice of eating dogs.

    This came up after I mentioned it in some one on one tutoring session. However, then again, the kid also criticized the handicapped, said he liked Swedish people, and started bringing up "evolution" in class, noting I came from the state where the Darwin trial took place. Could this kid be some upper middle class snob?:rolleyes: Finally he critizes America, cause America wouldn't let South Korea have an atomic bomb, and ran over two Korean girls. But what if the girls had been cripples? :rolleyes:

    Ok, now you see why I have a problem with this nationality group, and Asians in general.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
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  13. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Actually the badness in the dog eating practice is cause they torture the dogs before eating them. It's more than just being something weird, as westerners would see it.
     
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  14. KenBrace Bird Administrator

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    This has sort of always been my hold up when it comes to learning new languages.

    It would be cool but it honestly wouldn't justify the effort. I'm very rarely around people who speak a language other than English.
     
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  15. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    A lot of subjects, especially math, have a learning process similar to learning a foreign language. You have to memorize, well at least if you want to be fast on a test, a lot of formulas. Finally, the language of a math textbook is practically a foreign language.

    Oh, and computer programming, which KenBrace is into, is also "foreign language" like, hence it's called "computer languages".
     
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  16. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Some ESL teachers try to defend Koreans. They might say mockingly, "Oh, Jason is a crappy teacher.". Well, anyhow, it's beside the point. You see how many ESL teachers are bought off with high salaries and flattery (from the boss and students), so they always defend South Korea. But how much can you defend about a lot of places overseas? The culture is so shallow, that you can only bring up imperalism and other stuff so much.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
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  17. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    No different from any other culture of peoples on the planet. When we are young we are taught our cultural myths, most of which are fairy tales, and these stories become the roots of our later beliefs.
     
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  18. jimbob Cat Moderator

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    The only computer programming I ever did, and that was a long time ago, was with Apple Basic and that is pretty close to the English language so it wasn't too difficult.
     
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  19. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    Even in my own family, social darwinism is becoming a problem, with the more successful members becoming haughty and self righteous toward the losers. On the other hand, the losers believe the other ones want to control the family, especially after both parents die.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
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  20. Jason76 Cat Moderator

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    America may actually be keeping South Korea from having an atomic bomb. However, it's funny they would want one. Here is the reasoning: They are threatened by Japan. :rolleyes: I guess that's a logical reason, considering the closeness of Japan and the bad history. What's more funny is no Americans know about the obsession of South Korea, nor care. If anyone does think about it, it's always about the north.

    I wouldn't say America keeping the South Koreans from having a bomb is a fairy tale. It goes along with the fact the US wants to defend South Korea and Japan, which the younger generations resent. They resent it so much, a lot of them even laughed at 9/11.
     
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